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	<title>Comments on: &#8216;Stop and Identify&#8217; Statute Allows Authorities To Do Just That</title>
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	<link>http://www.youngmoney.com/lifestyles/advice/74/</link>
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		<title>By: Joe Hepperle</title>
		<link>http://www.youngmoney.com/lifestyles/advice/74/comment-page-1/#comment-11900</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Hepperle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2011 20:11:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://75.145.89.9/?page_id=26#comment-11900</guid>
		<description>Wow did you get it wrong. The &#039;Stop and Identfy&#039; laws (including Nevada&#039;s) are only legal if the officer reasonably believes that the stopped person was, is, or is about to be involved in a crime. Random stopping on Campus under the assumption that most are underage and many may be drinking has NEVER qualified as reasonable suspicion. And as far as Hiibel (the Nevada case that went to the Supreme Court), Hiibel WAS the person they were looking for. Your article here reads as if you never even read the decision yourself. Cop got a report of a man hitting a woman in a pick-up truck at the exact location where the officer found Hibbel and his female passenger stopped in His pick-up truck at the side of the road. The officer noted immediately the black skid marks going from the roadway, directly to Hiibel&#039;s truck on the side of the road. The officer had reasonable suspicion that there may have been an assualt, and that Hiible might be the perpetrator.  So, the Supreme Court decided that the request for ID was lawful under these circumstances. To claim that Hiibel was not the person they were looking for is wrong. To claim that the Hibbel case now allows any Law Enforcement to stop anybody anywhere anytime for no reason -- is wrong. Virtually all of the States that have a Stop and Identify law also have a condition precedent of &#039;reasonable suspicion of a crime&#039; either having been, currently being, or about to be committed by the person being stopped. The correct advice to this College Student is that if you have been drinking and you are underage and on Campus, then you&#039;re screwed if you get stopped. But, if you have not been drinking, then refuse to give ID and ask what crime you are being stopped for. The Officer will naturally do everything to avoid stating a crime. The Officer will blow right through your question and attempt to refocus the interface as a &#039;demand by a uniformed Officer&#039; that you present your ID. That&#039;s when you immediately begin repeating over and over these two sentences-- &quot;Am I free to go? What crime have you stopped me for?&quot; again, &quot;Am I free to go? What crime have you stopped me for?&quot;, and again and again and again. Keep your face calm and gentle and maintain eye contact with the Officer. That&#039;s how you stand up for your rights. Even in a &#039;Stop and Identify&#039; State.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow did you get it wrong. The &#8216;Stop and Identfy&#8217; laws (including Nevada&#8217;s) are only legal if the officer reasonably believes that the stopped person was, is, or is about to be involved in a crime. Random stopping on Campus under the assumption that most are underage and many may be drinking has NEVER qualified as reasonable suspicion. And as far as Hiibel (the Nevada case that went to the Supreme Court), Hiibel WAS the person they were looking for. Your article here reads as if you never even read the decision yourself. Cop got a report of a man hitting a woman in a pick-up truck at the exact location where the officer found Hibbel and his female passenger stopped in His pick-up truck at the side of the road. The officer noted immediately the black skid marks going from the roadway, directly to Hiibel&#8217;s truck on the side of the road. The officer had reasonable suspicion that there may have been an assualt, and that Hiible might be the perpetrator.  So, the Supreme Court decided that the request for ID was lawful under these circumstances. To claim that Hiibel was not the person they were looking for is wrong. To claim that the Hibbel case now allows any Law Enforcement to stop anybody anywhere anytime for no reason &#8212; is wrong. Virtually all of the States that have a Stop and Identify law also have a condition precedent of &#8216;reasonable suspicion of a crime&#8217; either having been, currently being, or about to be committed by the person being stopped. The correct advice to this College Student is that if you have been drinking and you are underage and on Campus, then you&#8217;re screwed if you get stopped. But, if you have not been drinking, then refuse to give ID and ask what crime you are being stopped for. The Officer will naturally do everything to avoid stating a crime. The Officer will blow right through your question and attempt to refocus the interface as a &#8216;demand by a uniformed Officer&#8217; that you present your ID. That&#8217;s when you immediately begin repeating over and over these two sentences&#8211; &#8220;Am I free to go? What crime have you stopped me for?&#8221; again, &#8220;Am I free to go? What crime have you stopped me for?&#8221;, and again and again and again. Keep your face calm and gentle and maintain eye contact with the Officer. That&#8217;s how you stand up for your rights. Even in a &#8216;Stop and Identify&#8217; State.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.youngmoney.com/lifestyles/advice/74/comment-page-1/#comment-6579</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 17:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://75.145.89.9/?page_id=26#comment-6579</guid>
		<description>Given this response is 3 years *AFTER* the OP&#039;s question I&#039;m assuming he&#039;ll not read it and/or has already graduated (hopefully).  However, I believe Mr. Lindsay&#039;s response was slightly misleading and, further, ignored a significant issue.

Hiibel did not hold that &quot;the cops are allowed to force you to give up the 411 on yourself.&quot;  The OP&#039;s questions were: 1) Is he required to produce ID, and 2) Is he required to take a breathalyzer test?

First, &quot;asking&quot; for &quot;ID&quot; and &quot;showing ID&quot; are two separate things.  The former is a request for one to verbally identify themselves; the latter is a request for one to hand over a physical document.  Hiibel did not hold (and neither does the Kansas &quot;Stop and Identify&quot; statute cited require) that a person hand over any documentation.  In fact, in Hiibel the Court held that the Nevada statute was satisfactorily met by merely &quot;stating [your] name.&quot;

As such, I believe it an overstatement to say that one is &quot;forced to give up the 411 on [themselves].&quot;  In Kansas, you need only verbally 1) state your name, 2) state your address, and 3) state what you are doing.  I haven&#039;t checked the case law but I imagine an &quot;explanation of [one&#039;s] actions&quot; is only loosely defined and likely accepted to be what its plain meaning suggests; i.e. I&#039;m sure &quot;I&#039;m going home&quot; is sufficient.  Although, as a previous commenter has noted, most schools have student conduct policies requiring people to show their student ID cards when in school buildings and while on campus after hours (or possibly at anytime).  Regardless, a student ID and a driver&#039;s license are two separate things.

Lastly, the issue unresolved by Mr. Lindsay&#039;s response is the legal requirement of a minor to submit to a breathalyzer while not driving.  If one is not driving a motor vehicle then there is no &quot;Implied Consent&quot; law in effect (some states require a driver to submit to such an analysis as a consequence of being permitted to operating a motor vehicle; i.e. having a driver&#039;s license).  I believe Mr. Lindsay&#039;s response could have been more informative had the current case law on refusing to submit to a breathalyzer been discussed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given this response is 3 years *AFTER* the OP&#8217;s question I&#8217;m assuming he&#8217;ll not read it and/or has already graduated (hopefully).  However, I believe Mr. Lindsay&#8217;s response was slightly misleading and, further, ignored a significant issue.</p>
<p>Hiibel did not hold that &#8220;the cops are allowed to force you to give up the 411 on yourself.&#8221;  The OP&#8217;s questions were: 1) Is he required to produce ID, and 2) Is he required to take a breathalyzer test?</p>
<p>First, &#8220;asking&#8221; for &#8220;ID&#8221; and &#8220;showing ID&#8221; are two separate things.  The former is a request for one to verbally identify themselves; the latter is a request for one to hand over a physical document.  Hiibel did not hold (and neither does the Kansas &#8220;Stop and Identify&#8221; statute cited require) that a person hand over any documentation.  In fact, in Hiibel the Court held that the Nevada statute was satisfactorily met by merely &#8220;stating [your] name.&#8221;</p>
<p>As such, I believe it an overstatement to say that one is &#8220;forced to give up the 411 on [themselves].&#8221;  In Kansas, you need only verbally 1) state your name, 2) state your address, and 3) state what you are doing.  I haven&#8217;t checked the case law but I imagine an &#8220;explanation of [one's] actions&#8221; is only loosely defined and likely accepted to be what its plain meaning suggests; i.e. I&#8217;m sure &#8220;I&#8217;m going home&#8221; is sufficient.  Although, as a previous commenter has noted, most schools have student conduct policies requiring people to show their student ID cards when in school buildings and while on campus after hours (or possibly at anytime).  Regardless, a student ID and a driver&#8217;s license are two separate things.</p>
<p>Lastly, the issue unresolved by Mr. Lindsay&#8217;s response is the legal requirement of a minor to submit to a breathalyzer while not driving.  If one is not driving a motor vehicle then there is no &#8220;Implied Consent&#8221; law in effect (some states require a driver to submit to such an analysis as a consequence of being permitted to operating a motor vehicle; i.e. having a driver&#8217;s license).  I believe Mr. Lindsay&#8217;s response could have been more informative had the current case law on refusing to submit to a breathalyzer been discussed.</p>
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		<title>By: scott715us</title>
		<link>http://www.youngmoney.com/lifestyles/advice/74/comment-page-1/#comment-5466</link>
		<dc:creator>scott715us</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jun 2010 23:25:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>If you&#039;re on school property, I would also think the police (or any agent/employee of the school) can stop you and verify that you&#039;re a student at the school. If, during the process of conversation, they smell alcohol and you look young enough, that&#039;s plenty to investigate further. Once they&#039;ve built enough reasonable suspicion, if you refuse to identify yourself, you can land more charges like obstructing or violating the stop/identify statute if the state has one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you&#8217;re on school property, I would also think the police (or any agent/employee of the school) can stop you and verify that you&#8217;re a student at the school. If, during the process of conversation, they smell alcohol and you look young enough, that&#8217;s plenty to investigate further. Once they&#8217;ve built enough reasonable suspicion, if you refuse to identify yourself, you can land more charges like obstructing or violating the stop/identify statute if the state has one.</p>
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		<title>By: scott715us</title>
		<link>http://www.youngmoney.com/lifestyles/advice/74/comment-page-1/#comment-5465</link>
		<dc:creator>scott715us</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jun 2010 23:22:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://75.145.89.9/?page_id=26#comment-5465</guid>
		<description>I would keep in mind that schools/universities may have more latitude since you&#039;re on their grounds. Underage possession/consumption of alcohol is a &quot;status&quot; offense in most states and a small fine is normally the punishment.  The schools can do more to you if it violates their rules/codes (which it obviously does). Is your education/tuition worth a few beers on campus where it is not permitted? Go hang out at a friend&#039;s house (off campus) and stay there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would keep in mind that schools/universities may have more latitude since you&#8217;re on their grounds. Underage possession/consumption of alcohol is a &#8220;status&#8221; offense in most states and a small fine is normally the punishment.  The schools can do more to you if it violates their rules/codes (which it obviously does). Is your education/tuition worth a few beers on campus where it is not permitted? Go hang out at a friend&#8217;s house (off campus) and stay there.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.youngmoney.com/lifestyles/advice/74/comment-page-1/#comment-4247</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Apr 2010 10:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://75.145.89.9/?page_id=26#comment-4247</guid>
		<description>You are only party right.  The general age of the population of the college is irrelevant.  The officer must have some specific reason to suspect that this specific individual is underage.  In other words, suspecting the student of having drank a beer is not enough.  They need some specific reason to believe that the student drank a beer AND underage before a stop can be made.  Since no identification is required to be carried, it is reasonable to believe that stating your name and address is enough to comply.

I further take issue with the last part of that law; &quot;and an explanation of such suspect’s actions.&quot;  Assuming the stop met the legal requirement of reasonable, articulable, suspicion, anything I further say could be used against me.  No court in the land would convict you for violating this statute if you chose to keep your mouth shut after identifying yourself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are only party right.  The general age of the population of the college is irrelevant.  The officer must have some specific reason to suspect that this specific individual is underage.  In other words, suspecting the student of having drank a beer is not enough.  They need some specific reason to believe that the student drank a beer AND underage before a stop can be made.  Since no identification is required to be carried, it is reasonable to believe that stating your name and address is enough to comply.</p>
<p>I further take issue with the last part of that law; &#8220;and an explanation of such suspect’s actions.&#8221;  Assuming the stop met the legal requirement of reasonable, articulable, suspicion, anything I further say could be used against me.  No court in the land would convict you for violating this statute if you chose to keep your mouth shut after identifying yourself.</p>
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		<title>By: Tristan</title>
		<link>http://www.youngmoney.com/lifestyles/advice/74/comment-page-1/#comment-2728</link>
		<dc:creator>Tristan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 07:10:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://75.145.89.9/?page_id=26#comment-2728</guid>
		<description>So how does the &quot;general suspicion&quot; usually play out in court.  If I am walking down the street minding my own, and a cop randomly comes up and asks for my ID would I be within my rights to refuse?  (assuming no altered circumstance, ie..an underage kid stumbling on a college campus)  Or does the cop have so much latitude with his &quot;general suspicion&quot; that I would find myself under arrest for refusal?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So how does the &#8220;general suspicion&#8221; usually play out in court.  If I am walking down the street minding my own, and a cop randomly comes up and asks for my ID would I be within my rights to refuse?  (assuming no altered circumstance, ie..an underage kid stumbling on a college campus)  Or does the cop have so much latitude with his &#8220;general suspicion&#8221; that I would find myself under arrest for refusal?</p>
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		<title>By: Hammerslay</title>
		<link>http://www.youngmoney.com/lifestyles/advice/74/comment-page-1/#comment-1147</link>
		<dc:creator>Hammerslay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 00:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://75.145.89.9/?page_id=26#comment-1147</guid>
		<description>Sad, but true....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sad, but true&#8230;.</p>
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